special introductory paragraph!

Gish

Lull EP (by David Weigel)

Siamese Dream

Pisces Iscariot

Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness

The Aeroplane Flies High

Adore

MACHINA/The Machines Of God

Machina II: The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music

Zeitgeist

American Gothic EP

Gish - Virgin 1991.

But innovative? Not a whit. It sounds like really well-produced Dinosaur Jr. with all the slack sucked out. Smashing Pumpkins fans loved it in retrospect though, which leads me to believe that the Pumpers are another one of those bands where, if you like their style, you'll like anything they put out. I'm that way about Helios Creed - he does the same thing over and over and over again, but darn it, I like it! All he has to offer is a neat guitar tone, but I like it! And I don't like the Smashing Pumpkins' style. Say! I was reading a stylebook about a month ago, and it said that if you're making a plural noun possessive, you write "apostrophe S" after the noun, but only if the next word DOESN'T start with an S! Isn't that weird? That's why I wrote "Pumpkins' style" up there. Had I used the word "tissue," I would have written "Pumpkins's tissue" with an S after the apostrophe!! Isn't that bizarre? Say! I also really like that song where the bass keeps doing that little ascending thing between lines - what's that one called? It's either "Crush" or "Suffer" - see, I just have a dubbed copy, so it's hard to figure out which songs are which. It would help if Billy used the fucking song titles at all during the actual fucking songs.

Reader Comments

Dave Weigel
7/10.

A fine little debut album that was overshadowed by the big records of 1991--remember Nevermind, Use Your Illusions I and II and Metallica? Wow, and Pearl Jam's debut, too. Hell of a year. Back then, the Pumpkins were a bunch of forgettable indies with a wussy-voiced singer, and this was an odd little item with a bland cover and title. It's still pretty good, though.

If I remember correctly, "I Am One", "Siva" and "Rhinoceros" were the hits. They're also the first three tracks on the album, so any occasional fans like myself probably won't see any incentive to going past them. Billy's songwriting wasn't developed yet, and after hearing more recent material this sounds as modern as a Johnny Cash album. But big fans will love it, and others will remember it fondly.

fyodor@mixcom.com (Ted Zimmer)
I think this is the pumpkins' best album with Siamese dream a little behind. With this album, they had their own distinct sound and that's why its so cool. Most of the songs are more than 5 minutes in length and are very original. My favorite are "Rhinoceros", "Suffer" and "window paine". Every thing after Siamese dream sux because they sold out and now sound like all other alternative bands. The batman song is horrible.

iceman@suger-river.net (Nathan Brewer)
i agree with ted here, i feel this is the best pumpkins album. i used to love Siamese Dream so much a while back, but i can't get into it that much anymore.

poirier@mediaone.net (Steve Poirier)
This is by FAR the best pumpkins album. I know you dont know much about drums, but the drumwork on this one is AMAZING. You can trash Jimmy's drumming all you want, but watch the viewiphoria video, and keep your eye on him. Its PERFECT. If you have any ear for music you would hear that. Reading your reviews i can tell you like drummers who throw bag o' tricks in your face and do all the fills they can. Witch ruins good songs.

ahodgson@home.com (Aaron)
This record rocks.

After Bob Rock's bonjovivication of Metallica and Soundgarden putting out some sort of Deep Purple parody in 1991/92, Gish restored some hope to rock and roll as I saw it.

It didn't sound like shit else, and there was solid musicianship behind the hooks. Heavy, fast, slow, and sappy by turns (but sometimes unexpected turns), this recond turned me on like a switch.

However, the band never followed with anything worth listening to. Now...aw, just forget now. I couldn't be more tired of Billy Corgan singing about his homosexuality. Too much emotion/emoting and not enough testosterone. Someone should get him off of this Fleetwood Mac/Barbara Streisand kick he's on and make him put on his Sabbath records instead...for the sake of his own soul. It's already too late for his music.

SLURPEEDIRT@aol.com
i really liked this album when it came out. now i only like "rhinocerous" and "crush". i could listen to those two songs anytime. and jimmy's drumming is pretty damn good. if you listen, he's kinda got that alice donut groove going on. too bad they lost any bit of promise they had.

jes25689@aol.com
what a great album. as others here have said, Jimmy's drumming is incredible and I must agree, but D'arcy's bass playing is really something here too. too bad on their subsequent album billy and james would play most of the bass and the bass would almost be inaudible on many of their songs. and of course, one can't forget immy and bill's awesome guitar work here. a very fine debut that gets an 8 from me.

scott_colby@yahoo.com
For some reason true music geeks think they are cooler when they like a bands early stuff more than their hits. Since it is the case that early material many times is superior I can see why people take pride in discovering these hidden treasures that the mainstream society is oblivious of, but this album sucks. "Rhinocerous" is the highlight and I do enjoy it, but listening to rest of this album is slow torture. Not only is it boring, but it is irritating too, which is a tough combination to pull off.

uglytruth@hotmail.com (Hossein Nayebagha)
Maybe you're a bit harsh here...a four is really low and you rarely go down there unless the album really sucks. And you gave Blind by C.O.C a 5. But then again, if an album is lousy, who cares if it gets a 4, 5 or 6 ?

I agree that it's mainly the rockers that ruin this album. But I don't really think they're attempting to do slow metal here just because they do slow songs. I'd guess you shouldn't have written this review whenever you did it, because you were probably in a bad mood and wanted to get the review done already.

"Crush" is a good song. "Rhinoceros" builds into something powerful enough... "Snail" is ok. I used to like "Window Paine". But no, it's not all that great and Smashing Pumpkins must be one of the most overrated rock bands of the 90's.

nikus80@hotmail.com (Aprentice)
Of the four singles, I am one and siva is essentially the same song. Bury me too, I guess. I think they're ok, but this rockers put me to sleep. Rhinoceros and Daydream, now I like those songs! I like to sing daydream. And I like listening to it. Why didn't d'arcy sang more often? And the hidden track "I'm going crazy" is cool too. Like prindle, I like crush too. Suffer is good for going to sleep. Snail. Tristessa would be rewriten better as Cherub Rock. If I am awake when Window Paine comes, I think it sucks. Then Daydream, though more soothing that the most of the songs, it wkes me up just because it is great. So, 2 great songs, a few ok songs, the rest suck. Yeah, a 4 is ok. Some folks love this record, so be warned, you may like it. I do not.

ddickson@rice.edu
I'm not sure, but I think I've been kicked off Capn' Marvel's site. He hasn't posted any comment of mine (all three of them) since I told him Hysteria was a good album (ouch). Oh well--I've noticed not many people tend to send in reader comments to that site. Or maybe he only posts 2% of them. We'll never know. He's a good writer--just a little dark and forbidding at times. And extremely sarcastic on the comeback.

Anyhore, Gish is an excellent debut that--whoa, get ready--I think is actually BETTER than Nevermind. You've got a point, Mark--for diehard Pumpkinheads like meself, it's all about the style. I LIKE the motherforkin' style. And I love Rhinocerous. I just think the middle of the album could use some tiny improvement--it's so freakin' SLOW. A nine out of ten--and it's only that low 'cause the next two albums are even better.

airsces@yahoo.com
A solid 8. I like it quite a bit. I agree that the ballads are better, but I enjoy the shit out of "Bury Me". I think it has a lot of really cool parts/transitions. "I am One" and "Siva" are alright, but they should NOT have opened the album like they do. and...what the hell is "Tristessa"? I always skip that one, cause it's boring and it has no personality. "Window Paine" is nice, simple and hypnotic. "Crush", "Rhinoceros" and "Suffer" are all perfect ballads. "Snail" is awesome too. Starts off really soft then builds into a really catchy rock song. The drums at the end are pretty impressive. It does sound kind of dated, but no more than Pearl Jam's first album. It still rocks and soothes simultaneously like a pumpkins album should. The big rockness on "I am One" may sound kind of primitive but that's the thing...just crank it up. Louder. Louder. And good.

oh and...

All the pretentious hipper-than-thou commenters pouting about how terrible the Pumpkins are with aggressively arrogant fervor can suck my sweaty scrotum. If you don't like them, you don't like them, but I have to admit that I'm so incredibly pleased and impressed that there are so many fans of...you know, REAL music out there to reliably direct us Pumpkins fans to authentic college rock like Pavement. Growing up is hard to do. And believe it or not, musical tastes have nothing to do with any kind of maturing process and do not completely revolve around "getting into the underground" or "transcending mainstream pop culture". The Smashing Pumpkins are an easy target, so it's not hard to make them out to be morons, but I think Billy is a good songwriter and guitarist. And singer? Well he's got a strange-sounding voice, but he usually hits the right notes. To be honest though, as much as people like to badmouth the Pumpkins, Nirv! ana is a MUCH easier target. I like Nirvana, but all they had was a catchy marriage of power pop and an abrasive indie/punk edge and a drug-addicted, suicidal singer/guitarist/songwriter. Two-chord Cobain & gang released Nevermind and kaboom, the "90's grunge rock revolution" begins...on MTV! I like both bands, but I see no valid reason why anyone would single out the Pumpkins and call them posers/rip-offs. There was PLENTY of MUCH worse stuff on the radio in the 90's. Sure, bitch about the Pumpkins, but I remember when I was getting into them...at the time they were a breath of fresh air in between all the constant goo goo dolls, collective soul, hootie and the blowfish, and alanis morrisset. Nirvana and Soundgarden were amazing enough, and the constant overplaying/marketing of grunge rock alone was enough to make someone's skin crawl, but it really is just a question of STYLE. I agree wholeheatedly&nbs! p;with Mark on that point. Not a question of what's hip or...."ohh they're too adolescent-sounding, they're too whiny, they're too maintream, I HATE them, no one should listen to them...listen to Slint or Pavement or Dinosaur Jr. or Modest Mouse instead, they're indie!" It's great watching people pull that shit cause you know they're wasting time on completely invalid points that have little or nothing to do with the actual music or songwriting. thanks.

selloyd1@cox.net
Gish was a fine debut that I played the hell out of for a year or two, but like much of the 90's major label rock it hasn't held up.

My main problem with the Pumpkins (and why I stopped carrying after Mellon Collie) is they sounded horrible live. In my opinion, the test of a good band is their live sound. Corgan had the musicianship and the studio down pat, which covered up the mediocrity of the other three band members on album.

(Dave Weigel Reviews) Lull EP - Caroline 1991.

Reader Comments

iceman@suger-river.net (Nathan Brewer)
pretty much a "rhinoceros" single. sounds like gish, therefore it's good. the song is "Bye June" though.

Siamese Dream - Virgin 1993.

Again, I'll admit that Bill can write a catchy ditty every once in a while. "Cherub Rock," as simple and boring as it is - well, somehow it actually FITS Billy's vocal stylings! I love the way he squeals, "Let me out!" and all that other cud he squeals. It's not a great song, and I can't imagine that the chord sequence took more then ten or fifteen seconds to write, but hey! For once, his voice fits. That's all I'm saying. There's also a Moody Blues fan deep inside me who gets all giddy whenever he hears that ditzy little "Today" song with the ice cream truck. And "Soma"! Ooo! That's a really pretty one (until he brings in the heavy guitars and it turns into another predictable Pumpkins plodder). And I could definitely give a thumbs up on the squeak noise in Mayonaise." I forkin' LOVE that squeak noise! Have you heard it? He just keeps totally stopping the music for like half-a-second to let the guitars feedback. It's very tight, very cool, and probably the most interesting thing he's done since he formed the group (aside from "Zero," but I'll discuss that song a little later).

Let's see.... Oh yeah! Another good one! "Quiet" is a really great rock song. It churns and bubbles like early Helmet - really low, heavy and menacing. I like it a lot because it's one of the few Smashing Pumpkins melodies that actually feels new. Most of them are generic enough to have been ripped off from nearly anywhere.

But this album is missing that neat "deathly slow" vibe that overtakes Gish halfway through, and is painfully lacking in interesting material for a record that's a full sixty minutes long. And how can I make an accusation like that? Because I could have written 90% of these songs in my sleep. And in the morning, when I awoke, I would have said to myself, "Man, what a bunch of subpar songs I wrote last night!" and picked up the guitar to write another instant rock classic like "I Hate When Old Records Go 'Kihh'."

Okay, what other songs can I name and then give an opinion about - "Rocket"? Yes, it has that neat disorienting little slithering chord thing at the end, but what do you wanna bet that that was Butch Vig's idea? Eh? Which reminds me - I don't know who's to blame for this, but "Disarm" is one of the most hilarious songs I've ever heard. It's atrocious!!! It's so farging bad!!! Isn't it enough that we have to listen to Bill Corgan pretend to weep his way through the silly little angst-ridden lyrics; do we really need the stupid xylophone and pounding kettle drums too? Does that somehow make the song more dramatic? And, for christ's sake now, a STRING SECTION???? Whatever. If Mr. Corgan's goal was to create a listening experience as moving and emotional as Kansas's "Dust In The Wind," well I'd say he succeeded! That's all. If you want to call this a classic, that's your prerogative, but I've got probably 2500 albums, and this doesn't even make the top twenty three hundred.

Have you ever heard The Beatles? Now THEY were a good band!

Reader Comments

Dave Weigel
9/10

Can you say "artistic and commercial breakthrough"? The Pumpkins came the hell out of nowhere for this, one of the best albums of the 90s and the finest release of 1993. Everybody I know got this album. I don't have any stats to back me up, but it probably went double or triple platinum.

You know the songs--the ubiquitous singles "Today", "Rocket", and "Disarm" (all on side one) were huge hits and plastered posters of the album's cover all over the walls of adolescent America--or, as one song calls it, "Geek U.S.A.". There's some of the band's best material on here, with the said tracks, the beloved "Cherub Rock" and "Mayonaise" (love that sqeek!) and the elegant "Spaceboy".

But there are some problems. First of all, side one has a pattern of hit/filler/hit/filler for the first four tracks, and you'd grow weary if "Rocket" weren't around the corner. Side two has no hits but is more solid, with some fun weird stuff. Don't get me wrong--it's a fantastic album, and I almost gave it the 10. It has some weak spots, but it won't bore you when you sit and listen to it. Go and buy it this week!

crevier@microtec.net
The most over-rated, boring, disappointing (next to anything else they ever recorded...hehe), sleepy record of this decade... I like "Mayonaise" though.

philipb@owlnet.rice.edu (Philip Blaiklock)
I don't own this record, and I don't indend to buy any of their stuff until Billy Corgan grows some hair and stops shrieking like sandpaper. I just wanted to say this much: "Disarm" is, IMHO, the only genuinely excellent song they have recorded. Words can't describe how much it gets to me. The rest of their stuff - toss it!

MVanPelt@unival.com
Anyone who thinks that Billy Corgan has a shred of integrity need to listen to My Bloody Valentine's Loveless, one of the truly great post rock albums. Corgan admits that Sheilds is (was at that time)his idol. Everything on Siamese Dream is a more palatable version of songs you hear on Loveless. Disarm is lifted almost chord for chord! Get Loveless and realize what a hack Billy really is.

SLURPEEDIRT@aol.com
i used to really like this album when it came out. but now i only like "soma". i don't remember what it wa son, but i saw them do a live version of "disarm" that was all distorted and heavy, and it made a little more sense like that. not quite so overdone. butch does overdo the production a bit. oh yeah, that squeek on "mayo". still like that too. i think this is around when billy stopped doing the right drugs, as he proves on everything he's done since.

ian.moss@aya.yale.edu (Ian Moss)
There are many reasons why, theoretically, I should hate this album. It was a hallmark of the dreaded early '90s "grunge" sound, to the point where Smashing Pumpkins references were popping up all over teen-oriented sitcoms and soap dramas as a password to coolness, a one-way ticket to contemporary relevance. Most of the songs are in the same key, feature the same guitar tone, use about four chords...hell, this whole album is pretty much the SAME song, fitted to different lyrics each time and with 1.5-second pauses stuck in between. For intellectual sophistication, Siamese Dream rates at about the same level as a three-toed sloth (and shares the tempo as well).

Despite all this, I love this album like a bowl of Brigham's coffee ice cream with Hershey's chocolate syrup on top--the ultimate comfort food for the soul (or ears, in this case). Just crank up the volume, not even that high, but do set the subwoofer on max, because this album is all about the bass, and do something else for a while (like write useless record reviews on Mark Prindle's website). Let the stupid, affable goodness wash over you and abate your anxieties, sedate your senses, undulate your, umm...ululatory facilities. Or something. Anything, whatever, but don't complain to me about how stupid this album is. Because that, sir, is the key to its greatness. It's all the same song, and it's a good song. It's "Today." Or "Cherub Rock." Or "Mayonnaise."

Okay, admittedly, there are a couple of songs that are different. But guess what? They suck! They include "Disarm," and "Silverfuck." Or is it "Spaceboy?" I don't know--basically the two that feature a string section. I have nothing against string sections in general--far from it--but as someone wisely pointed out above, Billy Corgan's voice is not well suited to a string section (or, umm, melodrama). By the way, it's "Spaceboy" I was talking about just now. I'm listening to the album right now, and the chorus (if it can be called that) just came back around. By the way, I highly recommend listening to an album if you're going to write a review of it on the internet. Otherwise, you might just look like an ass.

Speaking of ass, I actually like the production quality of this album quite a bit. In fact, that's exactly what I like about it (well, other than the stupidness): the guitar tone, while not impressive in any tangible way, is as warm and friendly as any Crosby, Stills and Nash ballad, just louder. I know the songs are supposed to be depressing and angsty, but for me what sets this album apart from other grunge standards is its un-threatening, almost optimistic guitar distortion. It envelops you like warm sheets fresh from the dryer. A few exceptions, like the aforementioned "Disarm" and the middle section of "Silverfuck," belie my point. But don't let the album itself confuse you--listen to me instead, and you'll be fine.

Somehow, "Rocket" manages to suck ass despite being the same song as the rest of the album. I don't understand how they accomplished this, but clearly it proves that Billy Corgan is some kind of genius. He can turn anything into crap! "Sweet Sweet" also isn't so great. But who cares, I can hardly remember which is which anyway. Man, I'm getting hungry for some ice cream.

A solid 8.

ddickson@rice.edu
To all folks who are new to this site and have not yet heard the Smashing Pumpkins: Please, PLEASE do not judge the band by the visceral opinions displayed here. The Smashing Pumpkins are probably the only '90's-era "grunge" band who make absolutely no nods to the various indie, punk, and hardcore bands of the mid-to-late 1980's, and thus piss pretty much that whole scene off by their very existence. This website is a magnet for people who love the various indie, punk, and hardcore bands of the mid-to-late 1980's, and thus, by association, despise the Smashing Pumpkins. So you will be hard pressed to find more than a dozen people here who don't think that Billy Corgan is the gay squealing spawn of Beelzebub. On the contrary, pretty much any music listener who isn't a My Bloody Valentine fan, but loves good, thoughtful, distorted alt-rock on steroids, tends to at least appreciate the Smashing Pumpkins for their accomplishments, if not consider them one of the best American bands in existence. IMHO, Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness are two of the best rock albums yet recorded--and there are almost certainly millions of music fans the world over who agree. So piss off, indie fans. Quit smokin' so much Black Flag--it's lowered your attention span. Music doesn't have to be short, concise, and chopped up into little bitty one-and-a-half-minute pieces to be Not Shitty, and it doesn't have to sell less than gold to be cool.

liberty@ptialaska.net (Marc Kovac)
This is good report typin' music, all mellow and bassy with its unobtrusiveness. It demands (however limp-wristedly) two more smoke detectors.

twonoahs@worldlynx.net (Steve Steiner)
No, you're right Mr. Prindle, he did write and record all the songs/instruments on this album (for the most part). Corrigan was so petrified of the sophmore jinx and he's a control freak. You do the math.

Could you have really written some of these songs, Mark? Would you have been genius enough to put that little talk radio blurb in there where the lady is complaining about her husband masterbating. Although, the flip side to that little sample is when Billy says, "Okay, on this track, don't give a fuck." A little pretenious sounding or something. Bothers me like a fluffer-nutter sandwich.

danzig5@hotmail.com (Nima J)
Siamese dream in my opinion is better than mellon collie because there's just not so many boring songs you have to dig your way through to get to the good ones. For the most part these songs are pretty good. "Cherub Rock" makes me want to head bang, while "disarm" makes me want to cry. this album has a pretty good combination of songs. What keeps my rating not phenomonal is the stupid songs on the album. Which i can't even remember the names of. i give it a 7.

iceman@suger-river.net (Nathan Brewer)
i used to really like this album, but i don't really like it as much anymore. i'd give it an 8. "mayonaise" might be their finest moment, and "soma" is pretty cool too. a lot of the other songs just sit there and don't really do much.

pmtapia@worldnet.att.net (The Chameleon)
Ughhh...what an awful album. Goddamnit, everyone talks about Dave Mustaine's voice being annoying I say, if you want annoying go to Billy Corgan. Uggh what a terrible inhuman voice he has. I really hate "Cherub Rock", "Mayonaise" and in opposition to Mark, I think "Disarm" is the best song. But that isn't saying much, now is it? I got this album because it was "cool" at the time and the whole alternative cycle in '94 made me do it. Don't get this album, it's terrible, take it from me! I know you have no good reason to take it from me being I like Slayer and other really loud bands that so many hate. But, I do like Bob Dylan and the Beatles a lot, so now you must trust me. I paid 14 dollars of my hard earned money to get it just to give it away to a friend cause I hated it so much. Ugh..just terrible terrible terrible boring useless songs. I give it a 3.

azitelli@stevens-tech.edu
"Mayo" is good for the squeak, and there are a couple of good moments towards the end, but the hits are horrible and I can't stand the lyrics and Billy Corgan's voice and the Smashing Pumpkins and this album!!! a 4

mburrus@zdnetmail.com (Michael Burrus)
This is actually a good album. So what if the songs are just generic simple melodies. I like it. But I do think "Luna" is shit, and "Silverfuck" is way too long. Just give it a chance...If you can. Some songs are too dramatic, but so what? I still love "Disarm". This is better than Mellon Collie.

carrollc@mail.bulkley.net (Trevor)
You people are seriously cracked up simease dream is so damn good i'll admit at times it isn't that rocking but i blame that on the producing (all pumpkin records are produced boring as fuck) if you want to here what these songs should sound like,watch there veiwephoria live video where songs like silverfuck kick sevre ass

mburrus@zdnetmail.com (Michael Burrus)
Ok this is the second time I'm commenting. This album just grew on me. Now I think ALL of the songs are really good. Even "Luna" and "Silverfuck" are great (even though I called "Luna" shit last time I commented here, I decided to give the song a chance and it turned out to be a damn good song!) I don't know why so many people hate this album.

I agree with the guy who said the production is too slick and boring. Maybe it's just not mixed loud enough, but man, I really like this album. but I also think Billy Corgan has way to much control over the band.

I think this one deserves a 10! And I'm probably the only dude who gives it a 10. The singles for this album were not bad, there are better songs on the album like "Soma" which is, in my opinion, better than any of the singles for Siamese Dream.

bgreenstein@nctimes.net (Ben Greenstein)
I'm agreeing with Prindle this time around. Not because I like "Quiet" but because most of the album ("Quiet," for example) is made up of completely generic grungers that lack any sort of real melody. This is the same sort of "I can play loud!" posturing that I hate groups like Rage Against The Machine for. They're awful!

I'd give it maybe a five or six, though (probably the former), because I really like "Mayonaise" and the predictable-but-fun "Cherub Rock." And I don't think that "Disarm" is that bad - it's a nice change of pace! Wussy, Cure-like posturing as opposed to macho, Zeppelin-like posturing. Not that this stuff sounds at all like either of those bands, but you can tell that's the kind of "classic rock" that Corgan's going for.

Other highlights - "Today," "Soma," "Luna," and that little one right before it. But "Rocket" is atrocious! Just one stupid riff played over and over! I don't like Bowie's "Rebel Rebel" for just that reason - difference is, it actually has a good riff. And the rest of these ("Geek USA," "Silverfuck") are stupid! Boring, plodding rock that makes me want to do little more than stop my stereo and put some Eurythmics or Temptations on! Or turn it off, and run outside to enjoy life!

No, I think I'll just listen to Eurythmics.

ledwith.geo@yahoo.com (Michael Ledwith)
I'd just like to point out that the percussion instrument in 'Disarm' is not a xylophone, it's a set of tubular bells. They're an upright set of bells that you play by smashing them with a hammer. I only mention it because I think that any group that uses instruments that you play with a hammer is cool. Except this one.

SuprLoud@aol.com
wow. you really got this one wrong. i am a fan of the group- especially their early stuff, though not a fanatic. i have to say, though, with no lingering doubts, this is the most consistent album i own. "disarm," is beautiful, not bad, and who gives a fuck about the lyrics? pumpkins records are made for pure sound, and they got it all wrong when they brought billy's voice up further in the mix. mediocre? i don't think so, mister. You try writing songs with the kinds of chord patterns billy lays out. sure, he throws in the standard bar chords quite often, but his melodies are ingenious. you trying playing drums like jimmy chamberlain. the guy is dead-on. And, come on now, you try playing guitar like billy corgan, whose solos and feedback manipulation are reminiscent of hendrix himself. i like most of your reviews, but you got this one quite wrong indeed. even as someone who tends to like music that's outside of the mainstream, i recognize the genius of this record. but you're entitled to your own opinion, i guess.

Machinabullet@aol.com
hmm, Siamese Dream is an excellent album. When you people stop trying to be ultra-mystique like wannabe indie-kids and pull your fingers out then you might see what you have before you, or had I might add. I give it 10, as I do for all their albums.

jaimoe0@hotmail.com (James Welton)
I kept hearing "Siva" when Gish first came out, and I thought it was horrid. I heard all the talk about how great the Pumpkins were, but "Siva" just sounded like a mess to me, and I wrote them off.

Then I kept hearing "Cherub Rock" on the local "modern rock" radio station, and goddammit, I couldn't get that fuckin' tune out of my head, so I went ahead and got Siamese Dream. Not a bad little pop album, if you ask me. I think Corgan's pretensions exceed his grasp (note to the guy who said the lyrics don't matter, it's pure sound... I think Baldy would vehemently disagree.), but he writes nice tunes. No, they're not wildly innovative or anything, but they grab you and just suck you in. If you can get past the often atrocious vocalizing, the band's tunes are really grounded and solid. "Mayonnaise" is probably my favorite tune here, but the album really works nicely as a whole, in spite of the a-hole in control. Wow, that was stupid. I regret writing that, but let's go with it. Not a bad album. Get it if you like catchy, competently played 90's rock.

Jes25689@aol.com
This album has perhaps one of the best guitar tones I have ever heard. Songwriting, it's A-plus material all the way, despite occasional awkward moments.["feel it break your bones/mr. jones] "hummer" is probably its sole weak spot. I still give it a 10.

soul_crusher77@hotmail.com (Mike K.)
I finally got this after realizing that most of the smashing pumpkins singles I actually enjoy are on it. And I can't say I love it, but I can really see how this got huge in '93. See, it's essentially 70's arena rock for sensitive 90's grunge listening youth of america. If I had gotten it back when it first came out when I was 14 or so, I'd enjoy it more because I'd possibly be thinking "Billy Corgan understands my pain" instead of "Billy Corgan is kind of a pretentious fucker with a whiny voice". But aside from "disarm" (which is in fact hillariously overdone), they just completely nail the big ol' bombastic "guitar art" grandeur vibe they're going for, and for reasons I can't put into words, this is mostly enough to stimulate my pleasure lobe somehow. I'll rarely want to hear a specific song on it that isn't "today", "cherub rock", or "mayonaise", but I enjoy it enough while it's on.

ddickson@rice.edu (David Dickson)
The Smashing Pumpkins are kinda like the Beegees--it took their fall from fame for people to realize that the lead singer sang through his nose. Then the feeling of betrayal came over them in an overwhelming wash. They curled up in catatonic balls, took a two-hour shower, and washed every last vestige of Billy Corgan's scent from their defiled bodies. "GAWD!" the violated millions cried, "WE LET HIM USE US LIKE THAT. I CAN'T BELIEVE I SPENT FORTY DOLLARS ON THAT NASAL-SINGING LOSER. . . "

Castor and Pollux blow me to Bermuda, why does everybody hate these guys??? What on earth did they do to you??? I've heard Loveless, by the way, and I thought it was--get ready--JUST OKAY. Yes, Kevin Shields is a hard-working producer. Whoop-de-frickin'-doo. So was Lou Reed when he did Metal Machine Music.

I wouldn't have strong feelings like this if I didn't honestly think that Siamese Dream is a masterpiece. Yes, most of it sounds like a giant mish-mash of Sonic Youth, Helmet, Boston, My Bloody Valentine, the Moody Blues, the Pixies--and Nirvana--all pureed together. And yes, unlike Sonic Youth and the Pixies, these guys take themselves SERIOUSLY. But dammit, this has frickin' AMAZING songwriting, and dammit, Corgan can play a guitar better than any famous grunge god of the past decade (except Kim Thayil, of course). So they're successful! So they came AFTER the Big N! So they're melodramatic! SO F___ING WHAT?!

The main problem people seem to have with Dream--and the band in general--is just the three things I described. They're not influential, they're arguably the Def Leppard of the 1990's, and they're terribly, terribly pretentious. And the lead singer has an annoying voice--and he's an egomaniac to boot. Finally, last but absolutely not least, the production is slicker than a hippo's bottom. Good Gad, who heard of a slickly produced alt-rock album?? I mean, who??!

No one seems to mention that it takes real talent and patience--not to mention nerve--to pen and record these songs. In fact, no one ever addresses the issue, as if it was never a factor. Precious little hard rock of 1993 was more driving than "Cherub Rock", "Quiet", and "Geek U.S.A."--yet everyone comments on how "generic" and "easy to write" it is. I suppose "Anarchy in the U.K." took a while to write, huh? Precious little pop of 1993 was more catchy or omnipresent than "Rocket", "Today", and "Disarm"--yet everyone dismisses it as "radio-friendly". Needless to say, that argument doesn't deserve a response. Precious little MUSIC of 1993 was more intentionally moving than "Hummer", "Soma", "Spaceboy" and "Luna", yet everyone seems to have the--this is what really bothers me--primitive conception that alt-rock should not be "moving". Or more specifically, that it should only be moving in the LYRICS. Holy shit. I had no idea that Ian Curtis had a monopoly on the aesthetic of indie-rock. Now my universe has been blown to smithereens. Crap! I've been wrong all along.

I respect Mark Prindle and the indie rock community for their opinions on the band, but somehow I get the feeling that they've been judging the band on STYLE all along. Never mind talent. Never mind catchiness. Never mind effort, ambition, or fulfillment of such. It's their flaming STYLE that sticks in their craw and won't let go. And that makes them madder that a hatter. Add to that the fact that this band has sold 18 million albums in the U.S. alone, and the very first bar of "Disarm" on the radio makes them all want to go out and kill something.

If it makes you all feel any better, I don't like "Mayonnaise", "Silverfuck", or "Sweet Sweet" that much. I also think that Adore is substandard at best, and Deux ex Machina is a piece of crap. But I think it's amazing that you rate every single one of their albums way below the WORST ratings on most artists here, even the two albums (Dream and Mellon Collie) that are widely considered to be among the best rock albums of all time. And the argument that I get the most often in favor of this is "Billy Corgan sounds like a seven-year-old getting butt-fucked."

Excuse me, but I didn't know Johnny Rotten sounded so much better.

So that's all I have to say for now. Hate me, condemn me, do what you will to me, but I stand my my conviction that Siamese Dream is a masterpiece. I will admit that I may have unfairly judged the Pixies, but absolutely no ground will be given here. So goodbye for now, and rock over Chicago.

And watch out for that Henry Rollins guy. He seems like a very angry young man.

amcquill@shaw.ca (Andrew McQuillan)
I listen to this album a lot and it's one of the top 5 albums I have. But what I want to know is and why I am writing is:

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SO-CALLED 'SQUEAK' IN MAYONAISE?!?!

What part of the song is this in? Did I miss something? Because I've heard this song so many times and I don't know what you guys mean.

uglytruth@hotmail.com (Hossein Nayebagha)
I just don't agree here... a four is really low for this one.

Billy is pretty annoying, but on this album, there are moments when his whispers really melt into the fuzzy sound of the guitar and it sounds pleasant that way. Easy to write or not, there are some really catchy songs on this album: "Today" and "Rocket"... Some that are actually moving: "Hummer" and "Mayonaise". "Soma" starts off like a Beatles number... and then moves not into a predictable Pumpkins one, but into arena rock, and I think that's really cool.

I don't know...maybe this speaks more to younger people, I used to love it..when I was 15. It's not quite that good, but a four is too low. And I can imagine you wouldn't really care about it, but you wrote the review, no one forced you to listen to this, so you can't really excuse yourself like that. First of all you talk a lot about how easy it is to write these songs, but that's what many people say about punk...or "punk". And it seems all the time that you're giving it less than what it's worth just because they were overrated.

I'd say this has to get a 7, even if a weak one. Possibly 6, but 4 is definitely too low. The album ends in a poor style. And I'll have to just say this: "Silverfuck" SUCKS.

You might already have gotten thousands of mails about this, but it's all there on the liner notes of the booklet; "Soma" and "Mayonaise" were co-written by Iha.

nikus80@hotmail.com (Aprentice)
A four is a really low grade. And it's the same grade as Gish (I can sing I Am One over Siva...).
I'd give it a seven. See, put the record on the pc. Open the Winamp. Take out Rocket, Geek USA, Silverfuck, and Sweet Sweet (or not, is short anyway, but TOO short) off the playlist and voila! you have a nice nine song, 42 minutes record. I like Luna (which as grown on me a lot, it's a sick tune), Mayonaise, Cherub Rock, Today, Quiet, Hummer (cool ending); and Disarm is good, even if it is overdone (but the live, stripped down, heavier version is worse, so...). I didn't liked Corgan voice at first, but I've got used to it. I don't think the melodies are that simple. But if the chord sequence of Cherub Rock took that long, then I bet that billy must be a slow boy.
*Oh, I didn't send this one, either*
i don't have anything new to say, except that, ummm, Mayonaise rules!

9904352O@student.gla.ac.uk (Tom Osman)
Hats off Prindle, your "doesn't even make the top 1200" comment is a peach! Ledwith's hammer comment is also good crack!

...Oh well while I'm here I could mention something about this album I guess. The thing about the Smashing Pumpkins is this, when I was a young gloomy teenager this sort of stuff was right up my street. However as I have grown older, I have grown accustomed to the term 'generic' and I have also listened to enough less fashionable rock like Rollins Band and Neurosis to see that there are people out there putting every ounce of their being into making passionate statements without giving a rats ass about getting played on MTV. Having made such discoveries the Pumpkins just sound so very safe. They had some talent no question, but at this stage in the game the music world is just so mediocre that you've really got to do alot better than this.

merazzder@hotmail.com
Theres an album by The Smashing Pumpkins called Siamese Dream, and I love it so much. It's like every note, and every word of this album is written inside me - it creates an emotional reaction in me that nothing elso comes close to. Billy Corgan's vocals are so urgent, and so passionate, so authentic, and so from the gut - you can hear his yearning, his anger, his pain, his empathy, his love and his hunger and desperation. It sounds like he HAS to be singing these words, for the sake of his sanity. And he has so much to say - some people think Billy's lyrics are obtuse and difficult to understand, but if you know where he's coming from, they are really easy to connect with, and speak to a really deep part of you. They are wonderfully poetic, deeply personal, incredibly beautiful, and he absolutely means every word from the bottom of his soul. They are so intimate, it's as if hes poured his whole life, and all his thoughts and feelings into this album. And I just totally relate to the sense of restraint he feels - having so much love inside you, and not being able to express it, because theres all this stuff getting in the way. Listening to this album is like a cathartic experience for me, as it clearly was for Billy to make. And the music itself is so powerful - majestic, loud, beautiful and important. Music that demands your attention, hypnotises you and draws you in, and then pummels you in the head. The Smashing Pumpkins are a band that people are passionate about, a band that people hold close to their hearts, and they have some of the most rabid fans of any band, and i hope i have successfully communicated some of the reasons why. This is an album that you can really fall in love with.

airsces@yahoo.com
Siamese Dream gets a 4?? In matters of taste there's no dispute, but I still have to admit a 4 seems a tad low. Granted, this very album won the hearts of millions of teenagers all over the country, and became a huge smash hit, and it's on more "greatest alternative albums ever" lists than I care to mention, so of course it was WAY overplayed at the time of it's release, but I think it's a great album! The melodies are simple, but I think the songs are well-crafted and the guitars sound otherworldly. Warm, heavy, and full of texture. The production's glossy and slick, but when you turn it up loud, it doesn't matter, the sound is HUGE and I think the beautiful texture created from all those guitar overdubs and whatnot certainly make up for some of the simple plodding melodies. My Bloody Valentine's Loveless comes to mind as an album with a similar case. The guita! r solos (especially on "Quiet" and "Soma") are fucking awesome! I'd personally give it a low 9, but one thing's for sure...it definatly deserves a higher score than Linkin Park's first album, for chist sakes!

_c3994783@wanadoo.nl
What a bowl of heated hype-soup do we have here? I always hated the way that the bald singer of the SP sounded, but the music also sounds like a thinlayered mixmatose between the pixies (whom i also hate), soundgarden and sugarcubes or some other fantastico altoband from end eighties... undoubtedly this all was very intense and new for seventeen and eighteen year-olds with their heads stuck in discotunes and hitradio and who had never heard anything with some harder kick to it than europe or poison, but by that time there were allready hundreds of better bands emerging than the SP. But they didn't get the airplay for some reason.. Probably still too hard or mean for the hollyjolly kiddies wanting to play and listen to female guitarplayers. SP supplied in this demand and they were the alternative teeniegrunge face to the seattlerockers of pearl jam and nirvana. They also pretended to have more influences, but for somebody that had not been growing up to commercial hit radio these influences were rather weak in comparison to the sources they had it from.

But hey, that's how it goes with "alternative going mainstream", you get all these purists that tell ya how good things were when all these things were still anonymous.. Still, SP compare to soundgarden or a band like that as Coldplay nowadays compares to U2... a ripoff without balls, literally!

4 outta 10 seems reasonable in this respect..

Pisces Iscariot - Virgin 1994.

"A Girl Named Sandoz" is pretty great too, which is strange, because it's an Animals cover and I never really liked the original until I heard this version. Weird. I guess if you surround a mediocre sixties blues rocker with a bunch of forgettable slick nineties grunge rock, its spirit really shines through!

And don't be telling me the Pumpkins aren't a grunge band. I know they aren't. But by the mainstream media's definition of the word "grunge" as set forth by Nirvana's Nevermind LP, they are nothing but a glorified grunge band. Fuzzy bar chords, drums that won't move, and a complete lack of personality in the instrumentation. Have you at least noticed that? Billy doesn't play anything! He has NO guitar style! Unless, of course, playing sluggish three-chord riffs over and over again and topping them with unlistenably ugly solos counts as a style. And just maybe it does!

Reader Comments

Dave Weigel
8/10

Kind of rare and extremely underrated. This is Smashing Pumpkins' first (!) collection of unreleased tracks and b-sides, but it's sewn up real nice and feels like an album on its own. Given that, it's also very much like a toned-down Siamese Dream. In some ways it's even better than that album--it's much tighter and eccentric. But Billy uses the same hook for half of the songs, and not all of it is worth noting. The best songs are still not equal to the best on the previous album.

Ah, but what are the best songs? The soft opening "Soothe" is beautiful if underdone, and the rest of the first side is damn skippy altogether. "Frail and Bedazzled" is a classic SP rocker, "Plume" sounds hilariously like a cut off Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, "Whir" is also cool, and "Blew Away" is a fun sissy song sung by the drummer. It goes on fine until a cover of Fleetwood Mac's "Landslide", and then Billy's guitar-heavy tunes grow repetitive. But it leaves us with a good impression in the wifty sound-bite heavy "Spaced". Even non-fans may enjoy this one.

bilka@netnitco.net (Natasha Elise)
The song "Blew Away" is actually sung by the guitar player, James Iha, who does a lot of singing and writing. Personally, I think the song is beautiful. I love this album because it portrays such different emotions so vividly. Its a very personal album, hardcore fans appreciate it most. But how could you forget the best song on the album, "Starla"? Gorgeous guitars on that one. If you play, you'll love it.

iceman@sugar-river.net (Nathan Brewer)
i still really like this album. ranks right up there with gish for me. 9 in my book

jaimoe0@hotmail.com (James Welton)
Mark, I've got to disagree with your comment that Corgan doesn't have an identifiable style. I could pick a Pumpkins tune out of a crowd in a heartbeat. I'll also say that his sound is a pastiche of all his influences, but it still sounds undeniably like Baldy. Sadly, the signature of his style is his annoying, squeally leads. Too much treble. The friends of fidelity would not be pleased.

Jes25689@aol.com
A splendid collection of odds and sods. I definitely enjoy it more than Nirvana's Incesticide[don't get me wrong, that CD is still fab]. "Hellos Kitty Kat", "obscured", and "frail and bedazzled" are among their finest moments. It's by no means a complete collection of Pumpkins' b-sides/rarities as of that point in their career [download fine rarities like the pre-Gish "spiteface" and "egg" and SD rarities "apathy's last kiss" and "towers of rabble"]. An 8.

opeth1213@yahoo.com (Eric D.)
I have to agree with this being their best album after Gish. The Siamese Dream b-sides in particular are just as good as the best songs on that album... Frail, Plume, Pissant, Hello Kitty Kat etc. And Soothe beats the crap outta Sometimes, um I mean Disarm as far as acoustic songs. If they had these songs on Siamese Dream that album coulda been their masterpiece. Still it makes for a good album here, though i could do without the cover songs. After this album you can probably skip right to the Best of/Judas 0 double cd, since that has the standout songs from the albums after this one (unfortunately Mellon Collie started the tradition of their hit singles being the standouts) and their best soundtrack songs (Drown and Eye), as well as 5 or 6 of Mellon Collie's best b-sides. Ratings:

Gish - 8
Siamese Dream - 7
Pieces - 8
Mellon Collie - 6
Adore - 6
Machina - 5
Best of/Judas O - 8

airsces@yahoo.com
I think this has a lot of really good songs on it for an outtakes/b-sides/rarities album. "Whir" is pretty and very well-written, especially the transition into the end part. Nicely done. "Pissant" is really fast and sort of punkish and it's got this really cool ugly-ass sludgy groove to it. "Obscured" puts me in a nice little trance. Although every song's not great, there's still enough variety on this album to keep me interested. But the over-long decidedly and under-whelming "Starla" is pretty much just repetetive boring guitar noises on top of a tired guitar melody that goes nowhere and stays there for about 11 minutes. Well, okay it has some nice noises in it...but it would be have made a decent 4 or 5 minute song if the band actually developed the song into something more than it is. "Plume" is another not-very-interesting one. Coo! l guitar tone, but the solo sucks and is played sloppily with an annoying phaser. The covers are decent, but they just make me want to go back and listen to the originals. Especially "Landslide"...Billy's version doesn't do anything for me, except remind me that it's a great song, and that maybe I should go listen to it (the original). I give it a high 7.

Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness - Virgin 1995.

I tell you what - "Tonight Tonight" succeeds for the exact reason "Disarm" failed - it has a touch of HUMOR! It's a great song. Hokey as all hell, but better for it. "Zero" is great too, and possibly their best rocker ever. Why? Because that little ringing harmonics thingy is playing a melody. I didn't even notice it the first ten times I heard the song, but then I listened in headphones and got little chill bumps on my arm when I realized what Billy and Gang were doing. The little ringing sound is descending. Every time they play it, it descends the same way. They're creating a melody without playing notes. I LOVE crap like that!!! Why don't they do stuff like that more often??? "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" will grab you too, even if the bitchy chorus makes you wanna kick Corgo in the aho. I also like "We Only Come Out At Night." It sounds like a kiddie song about pirates and monsters, and it's awfully cute. The other singles don't do much for me.

Well, "1979" does something for me - it offends the hell out of me. Did anybody out there happen to notice that the riff is nothing but a cleaned-up ripoff of "What's Going On" by Husker Du? Well, it is. I'll never get over that. In 1984, Husker Du created this weird lurching screaming little song in which the bass player purposely played the wrong note for the first section of each measure (bear with me; I don't really know what a measure is); it was a great effect, and the song is rightfully considered to be an underground classic. So, eleven years later, Billy the Genius cleans up this classic by FIXING the wrong note halfway through the section (rendering it more palatable for mainstream consumption), then targets it at teenagers who've never heard the original! Result? Why, it was a smash hit! Think of all the units it sold! Worst of all, he replaces the headcrushing distorted feedback of the original with a slick poptone he stole from The Cure. And that's all I have to say about that song.

About the album, I'll say that if you feel the need to buy an album by this band, this is the one. Who knows? You might like it a lot more than I do! As it is, even I the doubting thomas have to give Billy his due here. Seriously, about 45 minutes of this material is great stuff. The rest? Toss it, as you would a salad.

Reader Comments

Dave Weigel
10/10

A classic rock album in any respect, Mellon Collie... was the most overblown, hit-producing and best record of 1995. I know it's not hip to like it anymore--it's been too overexposed, overbought, and overquoted by Junior High kids to be cool. Even in Rolling Stone's "200 Essential Rock Albums" issue, Siamese Dream constituted as Smashing Pumpkins' entry. But this double-album, the best since and most career-defining since the Clash's London Calling, is a masterpiece. Of its 28 tracks, at least 24 are perfect.

Billy Corgan's songwriting is at an all-time high. While some songs share a hook, each one is memorable and descernible from the next. And the set-up is perfect--it takes an original step and begins with a soft piano instrumental (used in the Olympics for those athlete close-ups, I recall), and moves from ballads to rockers to novelties weightlessly. You know the five hits: "Bullet With Butterfly Wings", "1979", "Zero", "Tonight Tonight" and "Thirty-Three". And for once they're spread all over the album, while three do lump up on side one of "Dawn to Dusk". But "Jellybelly", "Galapogos", or "X.Y.U" could have been hits as well, and much of the other stuff is even better. But I must give props for the choices of singles--I would never have chosen the last two I listed, and whoever did has a fine sense of what the public wants.

There're gems everywhere. "Take Me Down" is a sweet nothing sung by the drummer, and "Farewell and Goodnight" is sung by everybody. "Love" is a droning, sneering l'il monster. "Beautiful" is a pretty, naive tune, as are "Cupid de Locke" and "By Starlight". "In the Arms of Sleep" is a subtle piece that may be ignored by those wanting to pass it by to hear "1979". Matter of fact, everything's good! Even the dumb stuff is catchy!

Any debits? Nothing involving the music, that's for sure. The cover and liner art is pussy, girly-ass shit, but you can ignore it. And I should warn that it's possible to overdose on it and think that the only good songs are "Bullet" and "1979". I did that myself once. But it's not true. Now, if you like the hit songs, they're collected in a box set called The Aeroplane Flies High, which I don't own because I have two of the singles anyway and it's kinda expensive. Fuck it either way--if you haven't already bought this album, DO SO! It's great, and a testament that music in the 90s doesn't have to suck.

jnw@iglobal.net (Jim Hull)
Mellon Collie the best and most career-defining double album since London Calling?? I think I need to inject myself with a sedative...

I disagree. As far as double albums go, I'd say there are SEVERAL that are better than this one. Sign O' The Times is a better album. Sandinista! is probably a better album. Any of Husker Du's double albums are better than this one--and probably more career-defining as well.

I do like Billy Corgan, though. He seems like a very nice young man.

FRANFARMER@aol.com
I thought this was one of the worst cds i have ever heard. there are only like 4 good songs (none of the singles) - the rest of the record seems like he wrote the songs just to fill up space. Billy totally rips off old bands with his songs on this one, and tries to make them sound as mean as he can. to top it all off the record was overproduced (they even used a drum machine on some of the tracks). JUST COMMERCIAL CRAP.

iceman@sugar-river.net (Nathan Brewer)
I was really disappointed when I bought this album. I had loved Siamese Dream, Gish, Pisces Iscariot, and Lull, but I think this one sucks. Too long, too boring etc etc. And I can't really notice much difference in the songwriting either. Oh well.

stevenw@execpc.com (Steve Wahlin/Tammy Riste)
Ridiculous shit. This is the most overrated band ever. "Tonight Tonight", like "Disarm", sounds like horrible, horrible, horrible John Tesh garbage; or worse yet, like Yanni. People who like this shit make fun of John Tesh. Guess what people - it sounds exactly like fukin John Tesh! It doesn't help that the radio where I work is glued to the Pumpkins/Alanis/Bush Shit-a-thon. I can't wait till Ween (a good band, folks) puts out a make-fun-of-the overdramitic-cheezy-Smashing Pumpkins album. That's the only way I'll ever enjoy hearing those cheesy rock-strings. Yuck!

brouch@infocom.com (Bill Rauch)
I too thought this album sucked at first!! But after listening to it over and over I think it's ONE of the best double-albums of all time. The last five songs on the first disc are just incredible! I do disagree with your comment about Mellon Collie being the best since and most career defining double-album since London Calling. If anyone wants to experience the most incredible double-album ever put in Husker Du's Zen Arcade and just bury yourself in the emotions of the music for the next 75 minutes. It is still after all these years the most incredible musical experience I've felt.

jsj@swcp.com (Nima J)
I both agree and disagree on this review. I enjoy a lot of this album, but some of it gets really tiresome, and i can't even remember how some of the songs sound like because there are so many songs on it. When i first got it, i tried to listen straight through it... boy was that a mistake. Within an hour i was falling asleep. Not to say it's bad. unfortunately, a bunch of the songs on this album got sold out, like "1979", "zero," and "Bullet with butterfly wings," but i still think they are cool, and i really dig "tales of a scorched earth," and "X.Y.U." i give this album a 7

pmtapia@worldnet.att.net (The Chameleon)
I really don't like this album much at all. So why did I go out one December morning and spend about 20 dollars on this CD? Because my dumb friends (whom now I'm beginning to hate) said it was good. They told me to buy it. What pisses me off is when this album came out there was this big attraction drawn around how great it was. They were playing "Zero" and "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" on the radio like there was no tommorrow. Then "1979" started up on the radio, and I still don't know why there was such a big thing worked up about how great this album. Because it's really nothing much at all. Most of the songs are just medeoker crap. There is no way that I could listen to this album without getting bored within the first 15 minutes or so. And I'm not going to go on this site and and claim that this album "keeps me glued from start to finish". If all you people that can't think for your own selves..would actually try it..maybe you would realize too that most of the songs on this album aren't good and you maybe could have spent a better sum of about 20 dollars buying a Danzig or Cows CD. Jeez...I'm sure if you sat down and listened to it without expecting and knowing every song had to be a masterpiece you'd see it wasn't that good. Just don't feel as though you have to say an album is good because that's what's expected from the media or your friends.

mprohner@digiconn.com (Muddy Buddy)
First, I'd like to say a few things about the band. Smashing Pumpkins is one of the most over-rated bands of this century, and this album is the only work of theirs I care for other than one or two songs from Siamese Dream. Smashing Pumpkins is not as great as singer Billy Corgan thinks.

I thought this was a great album, mostly because I really dig thematic albums, but even given the praise I gave it when I first bought it, it got old all-too-fast, and the radio didn't help that AT ALL. My favorite song is 'Thirty-Three,' closely followed by 'In the Arms of Sleep.'

I read an interview with Billy Corgan in which he stated that this decade needed an album like The Wall, and sure enough it's obvious that's what he shot for. From the corny classical beginning music, straight into 'Tonight, Tonight' (which although I love the song, seems to echo 'In the Flesh' in that it seems to describe what will be the subject of the album (ie. what will happen 'Tonight.')). Looks like some attempted Floyd trickery, but although Billy might disagree, he has nowhere near the artistic ability as those he tried so hard to tribute.

SCha844032@aol.com (Sean Padilla)
Fuck the fucking Smashing Pumpkins. Billy Corgan sings like a ten-year-old boy with a sore throat who's just been castrated. And when he screams, he sounds like a hyperactive insect buzzing in your ear. He can't write a decent melody to save his life, and his guitar solos are as whiny as his voice. And how come everyone forgot to mention that his lyrics are the type of shitty high-school poetry that the Gothic chicks that I went to junior high school with scrawled in their notebooks during study hall? And I actually used to be a Smashing Pumpkins fan. But this was actually an accident, because I didn't even start listening to rock music until 1993, and I had just entered junior high, and there was no way in hell that I could get access to mch better music, like My Bloody Valentine or Thinking Fellers or Polvo, etc. I did listen to Pavement at the time, though, and when they dissed the Pumpkins in "Range Life", even though I liked both bands, I had to agree with Pavement on that one.

And Mellon Collie is just two inconsequential pieces of plastic that prove Stephen Malkmus absolutely right..."Zero" has excellent guitar playing, and "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" is a wonderful rock song. "Lily" is twee and funny, and "Where Boys Fear to Tread" actually covers up for a lack of melody with an awesome riff. And that's IT. Four above-average rock songs do not a great double-album make. And to enjoy those four, you still have to tune out the shitty lyrics.

The stupid piano and synthesizer-based drivel (the title track, "1979", "Beautiful", etc.) The schlocky, boring ballads ("Tonight", "Cupid de Locke (which has to be the worst song ever written...HAS to be!", etc.) The trying- way-too-hard-to-rock temper tantrums that just sound like excuses to scream and make pointless noise ("Tales of a Scorched Earth", "XYU"). It all SUCKS. And the whole band should be bitch-slapped for the asinine lullaby closer, "Farewell and Goodnight". Oh yeah, they were wrong for trying to rip off My Bloody Valentine in "Thirty-Three".

And another thing: I had two tickets to the Smashing Pumpkins concert at Madison Square Garden that the band was supposed to play when Jimmy Chamberlain and Jonathan Melvoin OD'ed. By the time, I HATED the Pumpkins...I bought the tickets as a gift to my 13-year-old cousin Terrell, who LOVED the Pumpkins. Then I had to explain to him that I wasted sixty bucks for a concert that he wouldn't even have the pleasure to attend because the drummer's an irresponsible druggie fuck-up. I hate, Hate, HATE!!! bands that tolerate members who happen to be drug addicts. They should have kicked Jimmy out BEFORE something like that happened. They knew he was a sherm-head. Fuck them for that.

And what's worse...Adore is twenty times as bad as Mellon Collie. If I ever meet Billy Corgan, I'm going to throw my copy of Mellon Collie with such force and swiftness that upon contact, it will split his bald head open.

dstreb@neo.rr.com (Evan Streb)
Mellon Collie is great! If you can stand that voice...

smcquill@home.com (Sean McQuillan)
Granted, this album has some good songs, those being the first few on the first disc and the last two on the second disc. However, Billy can't sing worth a shit, and the rest of the material is pretty unmemorable, which also goes for a lot of the rest of their stuff. Billy sounds like the guy from fIREHOSE, who is good, except for without any sense of tone or melody. When will Billy learn that no one wants to hear a gravelly, cracking, goat? I, quite honestly, can't think of a worse vocalist, except for Fred Durst.

Thanks for pointing that out about "What's Going On". That's been nagging at me for a while now too.

rojanko@pacbellnet (Robert Krohn)
I never noticed that "1979" sounded like "what's going on?" but, hell, it sure does.

twonoahs@worldlynx.net (Steve Steiner)
Neither of you mentioned "Porcelina" and the obvious Yes influence in that song. Probably because you don't care. I would've given this song a 10 as well, I'm surprised people are trashing it. There are only a small handful of albums (regular length) that I can listen to start/finish. This is a damn 2x album and there isn't a moment when I want to turn it off, except, ironically "Tonight, tonight". Doesn't like it. "Bullet..." rules and "1979" is a little anthem that reminds me of the movie Dazed & Confused by that slacker guy...

forlenza@nassau.cv.net
I agree with your rating. They could have put 12 songs on a single CD and cut the crap out, but they decided to make a big double CD and it is too long and boring. There are only 12 solid songs, and of those about 5 are good. I was disappointed of the Pumpkins, I expected better from them.

zvi@softhome.net (Alligator)
The very first time I've heard them I got interested but then when my friend gave me their CD ( actually 2 of them ) I was really disappointed, after viewing their clips it got even worse, don't know I don't understand their art. So after all I would mention only 2 songs "Zero" and hmm, shame on me, I don't even remember the name of the other something like "Despite of my rage I a still like a rat in a cage".

yearzero@earthlink.net (Chris Collins)
As far as I can tell this is when their music split into showtunes, Pink Floyd boredom-rock, and bad heavy metal. I curse CDs for permitting excruciatingly long filler-laden plastic wasters such as this. Not that I was stupid enough to buy it. Siamese Dream's singles were about the only good things they did, 3 minute melodic psych tunes with thick cheese-guitars. Husker Du in a parallel universe where they do 43 takes instead of one and Greg Ginn has the mega-recording budget instead of Richard Branson. But I hate each song they've done since then. And every time I see that guy's fat, bald head, and pretentious, effeminate voice, I get the urge to track him down and severely throttle him.

lawson@netyp.com.au (Pete Lawson)
How did Corgan steal the 'Whats Goin On' riff and make it sound completely dead?

malester@cpuinc.net (Lester)
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. Stupid title, in my opinion. It's a decent album, though. But the fact that it's over 2 hours long and just "decent" makes it seems like it sucks a lot more than it actually does. But there's a lot of a cool junk on there, and almost every song has a memorable moment. "Thru the Eyes of Ruby", "Porcelina of the Vast Oceans", etc. have the whole Boston/ELP vibe going on, and it's pretty cool. "Zero", "1979", "Stumbline", "Tonight, Tonight", and the piano song are very very good songs. The rest are just cool. I don't really think that "1979" steals that Husker riff, it sounds more like a major seventh chord resolving to a normal one to my ears. This album also does not deserve to metioned along with Zen Arcade, London Calling, Pet Sounds, White Album, The Wall, or anything along those lines, but i still kinda dig it. i'd have to give it a 7. oh yeah, you need to do some Weezer reveiws and some Neil Young reveiws.

NOSPOL@aol.com
A classic. Definitely worth the $20. I picked this one up about 7 months after it's release and expected it to be overblown. But it wasn't. Full of great songs! One after another. And as Dave noted the singles are spread out across the 2 CDs. The singles are great. But many songs that weren't hits are just as goof if not even better ("Muzzle", "Galpagos", "Where Angels Fear To Tread", "We Only Come Out At Night") It's been compard to The Wall and in concept it is somewhat similar. The concept deals with characters confronting the mundane details of everyday life and it works quite well. The music veers from hard to soft. This album ranks with a handful of double albums-Including The Wall,London Calling,The White Album, Physical Graffiti and Zen Arcade- as a doublr album with NO filler. Buy it now if you haven't already got it.

mburrus@zdnetmail.com (Michael Burrus)
Well I can't really say that this album is as good as Siamese Dream, but it has some really great songs on in. I don't really care for "Tales Of A Scorched Earth", and "Muzzle" too much. And "Cupid De Lock" is one of the worse songs I have ever heard. Good God, Billy what were you thinking?! That song is just pure crap.

That's what's weird about this album. The bad songs are lame as hell, but the good one's like "Tonight Tonight", "Porcelina", and "Thru The Eyes Of Ruby" are some of the best songs this band ever bothered to write.

So I'll give this one a 8 because there are more great songs than lame songs. I still don't think anyone should compare this to London Calling which is one of the greatest rock albums of all time.

Angus_Rap@hotmail.com (Alex R.)
I can`t understand why this album is a " Classic ". I think this album has sold like 15 million copies, but right now i bet that 3/4 of the people who bought this don`t give a shit about it anymore. Why?? because it pretty much sucks and forgettable. I remember back when this came out i was wearing AC/DC and Van Halen shirts to school and people started to kick my ass because i wasn`t listening to their shitty, no talent Alternative bands ( Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana , Pearl Jam etc). So one day, one of my old friends encouraged me to go buy Mellon Collie (because him and a lot of people said that it was one the best albums ever) And when i listened to it , IT SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I wanted to get into it, but i just coudn`t. The riffs are boring and Billy is the worst singer in the music industry today. And one more thing: ALTERNATIVE MUSIC SUCKS COCK!!! . AC/DC, BAD RELIGION, HENDRIX, LED ZEP, RUSH and VAN HALEN 4-EVER!!!!!!!!.

kenyon@csinet.net
Speaking of ripping things off, the concept of this album (dawn to dusk, daylight to starlight, or something like that) seems to me to be an awful lot like the Moody Blues' Days of Future Passed album.

bgreenstein@nctimes.net (Ben Greenstein)
Okay, so they're not genuises (should I say "he"?), they're really only doing things that a lot of bands before them have done better (Bowie, Hendrix, Black Sabbath and the Cure, to name a few), and a couple of their albums are packed with crap (Siamese Dream is almost entirely useless), but Melon Collie really works for me.

I don't like any of the "rockers," the exception being the first three (especially "Jellybelly"). The rest of them truly suck - why even bother recording something as pointless as "Where Boys Fear To Tread" or "X.Y.U."? I know that the fans like them, but not me. Heavy does not mean good. Heavy and creative - that's a different story. They even ruin "An Ode To No One," which starts out very strong, by plunging it into the same cliched "rock" rhythm that the rest of these songs wallow about in.

But the pop songs and ballads? Those are a different story completely! They make up well over half the album, and each one feels completely unique and enjoyable. Not to say any more creative than the ones I mentioned above, but at least listenable. The two really long songs, for example, may be unashamed Pink Floyd ripoffs, but I actually like them! And the hits - "Tonight, Tonight" is awfully hokey, but with a killer string arrangement that WILL knock your socks off, "1979" is good even though it does steal from Husker Du, and "Thirty-Three" is one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard.

And guess what? Corgan's voice has never bothered me that much. I realize that it's high and whiny, but it's better than Dylan's voice, and everyone loves Dylan. Except me, I think he's crap. Which makes me wonder why I'm seeing him in concert tonight.

Oh, yeah - because he's playing with Paul Simon.

Back to the album - I think almost all of the songs are great, especially those last five or six. Really pretty stuff. "In The Arms Of Sleep" is good, too. If only their other, one-disc albums were this good, maybe I'd like them more.

DrSynthieMonk@aol.com
sorry, everybody, but i just love this album. i think its 10 stars worth. i always listen to it without skipping ANY track, because i love them all. even the more quiet tracks are exciting for me, i love them. i think the album is absolutely perfect and cool. the best one i own i think.

amcquill@home.com (Andrew McQuillan)
Fuck you all if you think this album is filler. This is my favourite album ever and I can't stop listening to it. I totally agree with Wiegel. It is a perfect album. They were right to leave the album the way it is and not cut it's length. My favourite tracks are 'Tonight Tonight', 'Jellybelly', 'BWBW', 'Porcelina', 'WBFTT', 'Bodies', 'Thirty Three', 'In the Arms of Sleep', '1979', 'Thru the Eyes of Ruby', 'XYU', 'Lily', 'By Starlight', and 'Farewell and Goodnight'. Awesome shit. If you don't like this album, you are not a Pumpkins fan. And I like Billy's voice.

evileric13@hotmail.com (Eric Miller)
Yep, the double CD is total overkill. Out of the 28 songs, there's 17 or 18 songs that are good or decent, with the other 10 being just plain crappy. Billy coulda released a single album with the 17 or 18 good ones, and since it woulda probably been 75 or 80 minutes long (the most that can fit on one CD), it still coulda fulfilled his attempt at making a big, long, over-indulgent concept album. And it probably woulda been worthy of an 8 or so. But with all the crappy songs he shoved into this double CD set, I think i'll just be giving it a very low 6. Now, off to burn the 18 songs that are decent onto an 80 minute single CD.

By the way, am I the only one who's laughing at the song title "Here Is No Why"... It's funny that Billy admits to ripping off most of his guitar sound from My Bloody Valentine, but hasnt admitted that the aforementioned song title is a pretty good rip-off of MBV's "Here Knows When." Well the Pumpkins never had that many original ideas anyway, just the ability to blend a couple influences into an occasional good song.

soul_crusher77@hotmail.com (Mike K.)
I'm with Prindle on this one. Some of their best material ever is here, but about half of it is crap. I give it a more forgiving extra 15 minutes though, probably because I actually dig Billy Corgan's sudden prog rock tangent; "porcelina of the vast oceans" and "thru the eyes of ruby" really do it for me. As prentenious as the song titles suggest ("porcelina..." in particular deserves some sort of "pretentious song title of the year award" or something), but a good, beautiful kind of pretentious. The non-bullet and zero "heavy" rockers in particular really have to go though. I used to love xyu when I was 16, but now it just sort of sounds stupid, "where boys fear to tread" has a kind of neat intro but that's it, and "tales of a scorched earth", although a decent aggressive take on the generic "this is a smashing pumpkins hard rock song" riff instrumentally, is made ludicrous by Corgan's attempts at distorted death metal vocals or whatever the hell he's trying to do there. There's a good deal of other worthless songs too, but those ones are probably the most offensive. Still, that doesn't change the fact that the rest of the songs are actually really good. Overblown and melodramatic sure, but what the hell else do you expect from a double album called "mellon collie and the infinite sadness"?

Oh, and on the ripoffs thing, this is only a little bit of a similarity, but um, has anyone else noticed that the riff of "here is no why" sort of sounds like the "ziggy stardust" riff mixed with their own "mayonaise" (i.e the stop squeal stop thing)? it's kind of similar to the former song in lyrical concept as well. maybe it's an homage or something.

jaimoe0@hotmail.com (James Welton)
Some of you folks really hit the nail on the head with your comments here. Too long, yes. None of the songs are patently offensive to my ears, but so much of it is mediocre that, at this length, it starts to drag. Taken in manageable little morsels, it's not a bad listen.

And I totally agree with the guy who said the Pumpkins were never original, just adept at smashing some influences together and turning it into an SP song. I mean, I hear Corgan ripping off the Husker's, but it's such a nice pop tune in their hands that it works for me. And nobody would actually confuse it for the behemoth that was Husker Du. Billy's good at blending stuff, I guess.

In short, this would've been a much stronger album as a single disc with the best songs, and then Baldy still would have had a bunch of songs serviceable enough to unleash as ep's and b-sides, thereby gathering more sales for his ego and more money for his wallet. He should've checked with me first... Silly bald man.

And for the record, this might have been the best double album released in 1995, but it ain't no Zen Arcade or Double Nickels on the Dime or even Warehouse: Songs and Stories. And comparable to Physical Graffiti or London Calling? Let's all just take a deep breath and settle down.

stroudley_loco@hotmail.com (Sam Davenport)
All my friends at school have this album. They all kept urging me to buy it. I refused on the grounds that Billy Corgan had one of the most irritating voices I'd ever heard-or thought I had.

Well here I am 4 months later and I'm eating my own words. My friend played Jellybelly to me and I though: 'Hm. nice guitar work and tone. but the voice is still irritating. Then, two weeks later, I saw this album for sale in my local secondhand shop for Ģ7. I was looking for new bands to listen to, having just come out of an addictive Led Zeppelin phase, so I thought 'Why not?' and bought it.

Uopn first listen, I didnt think much. But gradually some songs stood out, and gradually I realised Corgan's voice wasnt quite so annoying. Now I have the Greatest hits as well but I think I'll stop there as this and the Greatest Hits are all I need I guess.

Right then. onto the good tracks. Standout tracks for the whole of the album are:

1.Jellybelly
2.Zero
3.Here is No Why
4.Bullet with Butterfly Wings
5.To forgive
6.Love
7.Where Boys Fear to Tread
8.Bodies
9.33
10.1979
11.thru the eyes of ruby
12.We only come out at night
13.Farewell and Goodnight
14.and the title track too-forgot that.

Now, the other tracks range from OK to unmemorable [the last 5 songs on Disc 1 for example] to all screaming and no melody. While I could copy the good tracks onto a single CD, I wont do that, as I rather like having all the artwork and everything, and besides, who knows-perhaps the other tracks may grow on me.

This album gets a 7 from me and its a pretty solid album. The guitar tone and work is pretty cool. Get used to Corgan's voice and you'll find some good stuff lurking there. :)

PS Is 1979 an ode to Joy Division? the date fits, and Billy's a big fan of JD-as am I :)

g.quick1@ntlworld.com (Gordon Quick)
I thought this album was pretty lame when i first got it, but by god it really grows on you.

There's a lot more good tunes then crap tunes

The five singles are great, as are the title track,here is no why,to forgive,we only come out at night, and farewell and goodnight to name a few.

Bodies,love and xyu are poor songs, while tales of a scored earth is fucking awful.

Btw Billy Corgan's voice has never botherd me that much.

a very strong 8/10

okeydoke0@yahoo.com (Barrett Barnard)
man prindle you really need to get yer head out of yer ass on this one baby.great shit.although i agree it couldve been shaved a bit.but i like it hairy.and this is one hairy album.the heavy stuff is really good for once not boring at all.the titles are much better too none of that stupid ass mayonaise shit.best songs:zero,xyu,the title track,cupid de locke,we only come out at night,lily,and where boys fear to tread.

mindfulm@singnet.com.sg
Prindle is right here. I cried when I locked my vinyls away in 1993. I thought positive (although Neil YOung didnīt) and expected more songs on every album. Unfortunately I was right. CD means: you can put more music on it than on the lp, but you donīt need to. But if you do, make sure the stuff is worth recording. Recording is expensive, after all. This records (as good as it might be) overloaded me with many loud ideas (more than complete songs). So everytime I play it, I collect my favorites, the best of which Tonight Tonight and go for them. Itīs like like writing a 800 page novel. If you do, you donīt seem to know what is important, so you write every fricking detail down. Same holds true with music. Stick to 45 minutes. Itīs more fun.

ddickson@rice.edu
Hey! Remember me? The guy who sent two angry e-mails about how much the Smashing Pumpkins rule and how much Siamese Dream could kick all your favorite albums' ass and so on and so forth? THAT asshole?

Well, I'm just e-mailing to say I'm sorry for being an overemotional bastard, and I will never annoy anyone with my rude tirades ever again. Even if you DO all seem to be completely, extremely, and strangely high. High as the wild winds of space, you might say.

;)

NOW. . . about the band. It seems all this time I've been judging their worth on the basis of two albums alone: Gish and Siamese Dream, both very good, the latter a masterpiece. So I decided, at long last, to listen to Mellon Collie, their fat, bloated career blockbuster and see if I could determine just why they supposedly suck so much.

Well. . . crazily enough, I kinda liked it. It's a very decent double album. Maybe a little more decent than, say, Daydream Nation, or even (gasp!) London Calling. Most decent double album of all time, you might say.

Yeah, you heard me. Better even than that double album that everyone ELSE says is the best. . . yeah, you know which one. Odessa, by the Beegees, kiss my ass.

So, basically, what I'm trying to say is this: 1.) what wild substance are you guys on, and 2.) can I have some? 'Cause sometimes, I just want to be able to HATE good bands. I mean, I just get tired of LIKING them all the time. Bastards. Always making me buy their stuff!!

nikus80@hotmail.com (Aprentice)
For MCATIS, I don't know. It's really hard to concentrate on listening it, because parts of it are so boring. Which parts? Mmm, I don't know. But it has lots of good songs. Title track, Zero, Bullet, 1979, to forgive, yeah, you know. It may grow on me more, who knows. But as I always say, life is finite, art is almost infinite, and I don't have time to appreciate everything.

*saves the mail but doesn't sends it*
Mmm, Mellon Collie, it has grown on me. I guess I should do a song by song analysis, or something like that.
CD 1
Title Track: Cool. I really like it. Pleasant, and not boring at all.
Tonight, Tonight: It took me a while, but now I see it is a great song. Not THAT great (yes, i'm looking at you, Andrew McQuillan), but hey!
Jellybelly: I didn't like it at first, but is an ok song, some parts rule, but I don't like the way it is layered
Zero: .....
Here Is No Why: Cool song, hey!!! I like it a lot.
Bullet With Butterfly Wings: Wow! Great song!!! Probably my favourite, tied with...
To Forgive: ... =D. I really like it. Yes, I know no one list it as a highlight, but hey!
An Ode To No one: I don't like. I think it sounds like Gish, and I don't like that record either (except for Rhinoceros and Daydream and maybe the other singles)
Love: Another one I don't like a lot . It is not awful, I can understand if someone liked it. I can understand if someone hated it, too. I'm indifferent. I don't like the voice, and some of the effect, but I like the chorus
Cupid de locke: I know no one likes it, but I think is cute.
Galapagos: good song
Muzzle: idem.
Porcelina: it bores me in some parts, but ok overall. No, it not the lenght. I love The Call of the Khtulu.
Take Me Down: I think you know why no one list this as a highlight.
CD2
Ooops.. I don't like this too much
Where boys fear to trend: its ok, i guess.
Bodies: idem.
Thirty Three: Good, but not great
In the arms of sleep: really cool...
1979: I don't know if it is a rip off, but is a great song.
Tales of a scorched earth: I hate it. worst of all, argentinian band El Otro Yo ripped it off to create one of the worst songs I've ever heard in my life: La tetona (something like "girl with big breasts"). Ok, the actual song, isn't that bad, but I don't like it. Skip it!
Thru the eyes of ruby: worse than porcelina.
Stumbleine: Something tells me I should hate it, but I like it quite a bit.
X.Y.U. Ugh...
We only come ouy ay night: Like stumbeline. Its stupid, but I happen to like it.
Beautiful: Beautiful. Not like Carole King's extremely beautiful "Beautiful", but better than Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful". I like it.
Lili: Ok
By Starlight: Some parts boring, some parts are cool.
Farewell & goodnight: The ending that resembles the title track is neat. It bores me in many spots, though.

***********

So, what do I think? It has simply too many "ok" songs. That, and it is a bit too long, and too slow in parts. I don't like that some of the rockers, so if you aren't paying much attention, it will bore you. It has grown on me, and I think is fine. A record full of "decent songs" deserves something like a 6 o 7, I guess. But hey, this also has GREAT songs! But some of the song sucks!
Get it cheap. It won't be that difficult, I guess. Besides, more likely than not, your list will be different than mine. And if you happen to have the same musical taste as Dickson, McQuillan, and Weigel, you'll love it to death. mmm, but if you have the same taste as dickson and mcquillan, you'll love radiohead. Get those records first.

jspeyer@chem.ucla.edu (Joe Speyer)
This is one of the stand-out albums of the 90s, and you people all trashed it! Bet you all feel pretty smart now, dipshits.

9904352O@student.gla.ac.uk (Tom Osman)
Yeah theres about an album's worth of good stuff on here! This was my introduction to the Pumpkins and at the time I thought it was class, however in the cold light of nine passing years I have no inclination to listen to it again.

I bought this on tape when it came out and I stuck it on the other night for a re-appraisal, but I think I only made it about three songs through. Theres just so much filler on this! I feel no particularly need to complain about this albums faults, but reading other comments here, I really have to question how people can give this a ten!? Come now people, you clearly haven't listened to enough music in your times. Expand your horizons, listen to some Jane's Addiction, or Primus, or Faith No More, or Afghan Whigs, or Screaming Trees, or Type O Negative, or Neurosis, or Sonic Youth, or Rollins Band, or Fugazi, or Led Zeppelin for that matter, or a million other bands!

Listen to Everything!

And then don't bother listening to the really average stuff again...like the Smashing Pumpkins!

airsces@yahoo.com
10!!!! ten 10 ten! I LOVE this album!...and guess what? I was young and impressionable when I bought it. But so what?...When this album came out I was acutely aware that most of the music my peers listened to sucked ass (Sublime, Korn, Green Day, Alanis, Collective Soul, Gin Blossoms, Goo Goo Dolls etc.) so, although I would occasionally free-base some Soundgarden and Nirvana, I was mostly listening to a lot of my dad's old Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, The Who, and Yes albums. And this album came out of nowhere and really grabbed my attention. Billy may be a bit heavy on the melodramatic side vocally and lyrically, but I think his moodiness manifests itself constructively and convincingly in the music by backing it up with really great melodies and songs that vary in complexity and mood. That requires a lot of balance and perspective, and I believe that they&nbs! p;pulled it off successfully. Listen to the build-up and solo on "Here is No Why". "Thru the Eyes of Ruby" blows me away every time I hear it. I decided to listen to "What's Going On" and it's alleged offending counterpart, "1979" several times back to back. I don't see it. I can play both songs easy on guitar, and...well, the melodies are kinda similar, but listen more carefully to the lead guitar melody during the verses in "1979". duh(bend)duh duh duh duh duh duh-duh-duh-duh. After that, the 7th major resolves, like it does in "What's Going On", but I think it's a completely different song than Hüsker Dü's...but anyway, on a less-technical note I uh...really love this album and I don't understand why so many people here think it's so terrible. The production is otherwolrdly, especially on songs like "Porcelina". Sounds great on headphones. There's a LOT of cool shit going on in these songs I think. I still feel like I'm hearing something new in the mix every time I listen to it. The harmonics in "Zero" are a good example. Some songs, like "Cupid de Locke" (complete with a hilairious spoken word part at the end) and "We Only Come Out At Night" are laughable, but still great in a tongue-in-cheek way. Billy's voice is whinier than usual on this album...less squeely, and more explicitly whiny. And I think there are definatly some things about it that could have been done better..."XYU" could have been shorter, "Love" is ugly as fuck, some of the songs drag in parts, etc..but still they're all great songs, I do believe. I know you wrote these a really long time ago and this band doesn't seem like your style of music but I'm suprised that Machina (great review for that one... it's dead on!) got the same grade as this one. Billy came out with a solo album recently,! but I haven't heard any of it yet. I read a really great Blly interview though, in some magazine where he cited the albums Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures and Bowie/Eno's Low as influences for it, as well as some albums by Echo & the Bunnymen and Sisters of Mercy, so I'm looking forward to hearing that one soon.

MatthewByrd@hotmail.com
OK, let's get this straight, I'm too young to remember any of their hits, so I don't have any of their songs lodged in my stinky, disintegrating brain. But my 3 groups of friends (except for one guy, he's never likes a crappy band.... but HATES a lot of GREAT bands or artists or whatever) have terrible taste in music...... and since I've recently started to like hip-hop they now HATE whatever I like. So, I said "hey, I'll get some modern rock that they think is so hip!" I got some Beck, which was good, Beck is good, but they (except for 1) hated it. No, they praise Tool. They're gay. So here I am, at the step of the Smashing Pumpkins (my Weezer/Relient K/Green Day praising friends like 'em) looking for a record that I should buy. But before I do I decided to go to Mark Prindle's site to see what this damn smart guy had to say. Then I see this page. I'd say Mark Prindle's Smashing Pumpkins page just proves the genius of this website, oh my goodness. I still haven't decided...... I mean, I've read a bit..... I'm gonna buy one of thei albums anyway sometime (uhhh..... he gave Blood On The Tracks a 10 and Blonde On Blonde an 8?) ................ hunh, maybe I'll just get Check Your Head or Three Feet High and Rising or Coat of Many Colors instead........ but no! I gotta get some modern rock! BUT WHAT? GUERO? ELEPHANT? THAT SYSTEM OF A DOWN ALBUM!? I'm sure as hell not getting another Green Day Cd (it wasn't THAT bad). I have no idea, but I do have this, I bought Hello Nasty for 60 cents and it was worth it, I have listened to it like twice and have realized that I think it's great. NOPE, NOPE, I have made my decision, The Complete Boz Skaggs. ............. who in the hell is Boz Skaggs?

Ok, one more thing I think the name of this album just hit me................ I think this band are a bunch of raging queers. OH well, I'll probably end up buying this piece of crap anyway.... and I think I'll like more than I should........... frick me. Ok, random reccommendation of the moment: Kanye West - The College Dropout - I've only listened to it twice but that's enough time to realize that this record proves that Kanye is better than 95% of the hip-hopsters today. With all kinds of neat production tricks, sped-up soul-samples, various hooks, good songwriting, and all kinds of material that looks like filler The College Dropout is fine, and very entertaining record. Oh yeah, Though The Wire and Jesus Walks are the two "off the hook" tracks. From what little I know about this album I think I'd give it a solid oceanic whitetip shark, not a sixgill, but not QUITE a bull shark.

nikus80@hotmail.com
I've changed my opinion on this one. It has flaws, but many virtues, so I guess it deserves a low nine (more like an 8.5 rounded up), which is a ten in yr scale. It has only one song I can't listen to, and many great ones. It would make an awesome 50 minutes record, but like the white album (which is way better anyway), the "filler" counts, and no one would agree on what single record to compile, so why bother. Make your own 1cd mellon collie if you need to. Lotsa great stuff, and I can listen to it from start to finish, except for Take Me Down which is fuckin' ruined by James Iha vocals. He ruins A Night Like This (I mean, you can't ruin ANLT, that song is brilliant!). And I LOVE Lydia Lynch vocals on Death Valley!!!

mkorringa@aol.com
I am somewhat disgusted at how far I bacame a fan of this band. Even so, I only listened to all of the second disk once, the first i must have heard 100+ times. Now I cant even listen withiout cracking up at bad Billy Corgan's voice. I used to think they were pretty talented too, until i started playing the guitar myself and realized how simple it really was. He solos take some skill, but to no avail - they are annoying, more beeping noises than melody.

Melon Collie should have been one disk, only 12 songs long tops. Verdict, a slightly subpar album. Bodies, XYU, and Tales of a Scorched make me want to stab myself to death. Lily, Beautiful, and We Only Come out at Night make me want to laugh myself to death.

Before I die, I wil punch Billy Corgan.

spinaltomek@hotmail.com
I haven't heard this one in years. It reminds me how crappy 90's music was really. I wonder if everybody, sooner or later, realises that the music they heard during their youth is full of shit. I always thought that the 80s were the worst decade when you look at the popular music then. But hey, there was all this Hardcore and Indie music scene stuff going on, so it probably wasn't that bad. But the 90s? Okay, they weren't actually that bad, but pretty mediocre, in retrospect.

About this album: it's not that bad. Actually I loved it, when it came out. Now I don't. But it has its highlights. I love the drumming style. Can't really tell why, but for me it's really great midtempo rock drumming. And Corgan's voice, as annoying as it might be, is at least original and gives the thing a very special feeling. I love the feedback guitar solos, although they don't go anywhere, but it's good that they have lots of feedback and noise.

Mark is right in stating that this is too long, but I think it's still worth listening to, because I'm sure one will find a few songs that are really cool. Like "Tales of a Scorched Earth", "Bodies", "Here Is No Why" or "An Ode To Noone".

andrew.deaton@hotmail.com
Mark, I have to agree with the fact that there are only ten or so good tracks on this album, however my theory is that the production team has to slop the pigs with something. It's like if every album released only had the great songs on it, then how will we know how good the good shit really is. If there weren't total shit on the album, we would have nothing to compare "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" or "Zero" to. You can use this theory on every "best of" and just about every album ever released.

The Aeroplane Flies High - Virgin 1996.

Reader Comments

gotcha@glue.umd.edu
I extremely regret wasting $40 on that stupid box set, especially since I am no longer a Pumpkins fan. "Zero" is the only decent single, fans, so I advise you to not get any other Melonchollie singles. I am sick of Melan Chollie; it's only palatable to someone full of teenage angst. I hope I can sell that album, Gish, and the horrible box set (what was I thinking?!!!) I still like Pisces Iscariot though.

Pmpkin79@aol.com
Fuck all of you!!! I thought the the Smashing Pumpkins box set was great!! It had alot of crazy songs, that fit-in just fine. I thought that Billys idea of having a box set was a great one, and i don't regret buying it at all.

dstreb@mail.sssnet.com (Daniel Streb)
What's up with you Sir Mark Prindle???

You badmouth the Smashing Pumpkins' Billy Corgan for having the worst voice in the history of music and you enjoy The Flaming Lips??? No matter how freaking great Zaireeka is (one of the best albums ever made, by the by,) I can't get over the awful voice of Wayne Coyne, especially on "A Machine in India".

Oh by the way, have you heard the Pumpkins' new one Adore??? Their sound has changed so much they sound like a completely different band. They sorta sound industrial/poppish. 'Sokay.

bgreenstein@nctimes.net (Ben Greenstein)
I have to say something. I actually like a lot of the b-sides a lot. They're a heap more well-written than most band's outtakes, and arguably better than a lot of their album material. I may have to give this a mid seven, because a lot of the numbers are real fun and listenable. Not the Genesis box set, or anything close to it, but still plenty good.

Adore - Virgin 1998.

The latest: HMV is having a 40% off sale because they're closing in a couple weeks. I bought 10 cds including Refused because Nick Fucking Leu told me to, a Faust 2fer, the Ohio Express, 1910 Frutigum Company, GG Allin, Birthday Party peel sessions (I SOLD THEIR LIVE CD "IT'S STILL LIVING" ON EBAY FOR 81$!!!!! i PUT THE dollar sign in the wrong place. This "gg aloi" song "up against the wall" is great! I also got a few others. Who knows what. I'm hard to remember - oh! A cd by (censored). Don't let insanity = o drea, i dream i'm insane a lot. Too much for happiness. And a photojournalist today told me that the state department employees in the world trade center were told not to come in on the 11th. I can't verify this. He also told me that the CIA runs drugs into Burma in exchange for the Burmese druglords going into the heart of China and reporting back abaout what the Chinese army is up to. I have no clue whether this stuff is true, but it needs to be looked into. Like today thReuters reported that the CIA intercepted a call from Arabs on Sep. 10th talking about "tomorrow being the big day" but they didn't interpret it until the 12th. This was reported as big news TODAY. I heard about this WEEKS ago. The information is already out there -- it's just that the mainstream press are afraid to investigate -- either that or they keep hitting brick walls. And of course Bush got pissed that this came out, said it was a "national security" issue. Folks, the man is a CRIMINAL. He has NO MORALS. He is one of the worst human beings that have evr lived. Hopefully it will all come out some day. And did you knokw that the Vietnam War was fought for OIL??? Just like the Gulf War and the Afghanistan attack? It's all for natural resources. Vietnam was for oil, tin and rubble (rubber?). I was told today by two Vietnam vets. One guy was in for nine years - he said he went over there idealistic to fight communistm, but by the end he noticed how Vietnam was overrun with Esxxon and all the other oil companies. The TV news tells yiou what they WANT you to know. The three main networks are run by 2 companies that make defense weapons (GE and RCA, i thinkg?) and fucking Disney, who are in bed with god knows who. They tell you about Condit and all kinds of worthless shit and you're expected to care. What they TELL you to care about is what you care about. Please stop buying it. Things are not anywhere near as cut and dried as they seem. We are ALL being lied to, and have been for a long, long time. Something has to happen. Doesn't it? I mean, we brougth down Nixon - Bush is just as bad... He LET, i say LET Sep. 11th happen. THey knew about it. They fucking knew about it and they did NOTHING to stop it because they wanted the oil in the Caspian Sea. And guess what? They GOT it. But you didn't see THAT on NBC Nightly News, did you? They're pretending that "oh, maybe there was information we should ahve acted on," but they're LYING They KNEW it was going to happen, and they LET it happen. Did you know that Bush is trying to keep the presidential papers sealed abll the way back to 1980? In the name of "national security"? Gee, 1980 wasn't the year his FATHER became VICE-PRESIDENT, was it? Remember the Iran Contra scandal? When Congress wouldn't approve Reagan's war ideas, so he did it himself ILLEGALLY -- and NEVER got in trouble for it? This stuff isn't just Jello Biafra propaganda. A lot of it is REAL. Did Jeb Bush fly in to the flight school where the terrorists trained, conviscate the files and HIDE them? I don't know -- but I've read in several sources that he did. Why wasn't Bush alerted of the 4 hijackings until 45 minutes after they happened? Why was the entire Bin Laden family allowed to leave the country on Sep. 12 when NO OTHER planes were in the air? Why did the CIA visit Osama Bin Laden when he was having surgery a few months before Sep. 11? It was ALL PLANNED. I pray to God that somebody reputable finds all the smoking guns and reports it. I want to know what really happened. The man is a BASTARD. A SOULLESS CARING PRICK. If you can't see that from the way he acts on TV, you are a FOOL. An absolute fucking FOOL. GROW UP.

Pretty good album.

Reader Comments

Michael Burrus
7/10

No more plodding grunge or slick, sludge guitars. Adore is a headphones album. It's very thickly textured and it's solid production values actually show a touch of ATMOSPHERE. Something they've never been quite capable of doing.

Starts of with "To Shiela" which is one of those songs that may sound cheesy as hell the first one or two times, but it takes a while to get used to. "Ava Adore" sports a hard, driving drumbeat that is typical to elecronic pop. It has a really cool solo in it. It was pretty radio friendly, but the music video may ruin the song. It's really not a bad song. "Perfect" is also VERY radio friendly with an cool beat. I don't really listen to it much. It's okay. "Daphene Descends" is really pretty. It has about a million keyboards and mellotrons in it. "Once Upon A Time" is a sad song about Billy's mother's death. It's not really one of my favorites, but it's pretty cool. "Tear" is fantastic. I love that song. And "Crest fallen" is one of my favorites on the album. Please understand, Adore is not a happy up-beat little album. Actually it's pretty gloomy and sad with the exception of "Appels + Oranges" which I don't like too much. The second side of the album is just incredible. "Pug" just sounds so cool. It's another one of my favorites. "The Tale Of Dusty And Pistol Pete" is another pretty one. "Annie Dog" is interesting, but I don't get the urge to hear it very often. "Shame" is pretty bad. I really don't like it very much. "Behold! A Nightmare" is beautiful. The rest of the album is pretty much piano driven. Not bad, though!

I don't know what to say. It sounds like a completely different band, besides Corgan's voice which you're just going to have to get used to. The whole album takes a while to get used to. This is the band's most diverse effort. It's VERY different than anything they have released before. It's pop. I only gave it a 7 for the two sucky songs (three, if you count the stupid "17"). Plus, after repeated listens I realized that there's not enough stylistic range. It has some good songs on it, but as a whole it's just not terribly interesting.

bburrus@ns.shelby.net (Charlie Burrus)
I have to say They have done better. but still there are only a couple of bad songs like "shame" and "apples and oranges". I still liked it.

Lukevirex@aol.com
Asshole dolt bred dullards.Does anybody have the gall to actually present a favorable opinion about the terrific and Wondeful Smashing Pumpkins!!!??? SP is light years ahead of threadbare thin watered down grunge/psuedo rock that is actually greeted by the public. Bush, Pantera, Limp Bizkit, Korn: BULL AND HORSE SHIT!!! No artistic merit whatsoever! NIN, Metallica, SP, Radiohead,Nirvana, Beck and Pearl Jam ARE going to matter in the future and be remembered as the greatest of the 90's! So stop ripping SP in a ny way. Be glad you have 28 songs from Mellon Collie. Would you rather settle for 11 from Bush?

bagelmon@mail.cynet.net
i'm not a Pumkins fan, but i'll admit to having a hard time resisting some of their songs. they aren't a great band but i'll admit they have their moments.

Andrew Schiff
Mark,

Interesting review site, I like the concept. On quick perusal, I had to reply to one issue. I don't really have the time to enter the long running debate on the Samshing Pumpkins, but I just want to say this....

I have no reason to be biased towards the Pumpkins, because Lord knows I think Corgan is a self-obsessed narcissistic meglomaniac of the first order, by as far as I'm concerned the Pumpkins albums are some of the best I have ever heard. I think I have a pretty good perspective, I know and love bands of integrity from all eras and styles, and I rank The Who and the Rolling Stones as my principal guiding lights. When I first heard Gish in 1991, I had no idea who the Pumpkins were, but I was absolutely blown away. The song writing was primal, the melodies original, the production excellent, bust most of all there was the playing. The guitars, especially on I am One and Bury Me, were vicious, precise, and beautiful, and the drumming was the most musical and fluid I had heard in a long, long time. The ballads on that record were exquisite, which set a mood that still brings me chills.

Even though Gish will remain perhaps closest to my heart (I've probably listened to it about 200 times), Siamese Dream, is objectively a better work. The album works better as a whole, it actually has a theme that builds throughout, and can be considered a concept album in the classic sense. Again, individual songs are brilliant, and the playing is from another planet (the musical transition from the song before Rocket - I forget the name - into Rocket ranks with Dazed and Confused, Dr. Jimmy, and the best Radiohead). The strings on Spaceboy and Disarm do George Martin one better and are brilliant. And unlike most albums, I come away from Siamese Dream with a feeling for what he was going after, soemhow trying to describe the dull remorse that at one time in our lives, or at all times, we are connected to another being, but that those connections are somehow lost.

On Melancholy.... Corgan's ego got the better of him and he bit off a little too much. But of the 30 or so tracks on the album, there are at least 12 unbelievable songs. I could go into them, but I won't.

The point is, when you start talking about music you cant use objective terms. I'm sure your love of music is just a strong, heartfelt, and intelligent as is mine. But our conclusions could not be farther apart. Everything is just a matter of opinion, my only problem is that a good critic doesn't have to like a particular musician, but should try hard to recognize talent, whether it fits our image or not.

mdanzig@georgetown.edu (Matthew Danzig)
The thing to keep in mind when evaluating one SP album compared to the last is that the band tried to do something different every time. Gish was heavy and laden with young energy. Siamese Dream was the coming-out, less raw and more new-wave rock n roll. Pisces Iscariot more off-beat with that outer-worldly tune and minor return to wailing. And then Melon Collie, which I liked but only after 10 all-the-way-through listens. A strange, lisless album that you can only enjoy after really getting to know.

So this comment is mainly for the fans/listeners, not the curious virgins: Don't compare one album to other, or expect the same material in each. Corgan always tried to push the band into new musical areas, and whether you liked his new stuff or not, you must respect that attitude.

foland_ratzl@hotmail.com (Roland Fratzl)
Hey! Machina/The Machines Of God, the final Dashing Plumpskins studio album, came out in spring 2000, and I still don't see a review for it here. You're slacking Pringle! I realize that you don't particularly like them, but you made the effort to write a whole review page for them, so you should keep updating it whenever a new album comes out, especially when it's the last one!

Other than that, all I have to say about this band is that it's exceedingly difficult for me to get past silly Billy's nasal whine, and that for every really good song they wrote (and there actually are some), there are at least two bad ones!

robchaundy@yahoo.com (Robert Chaundy)
If you don't like Billy Corgan's voice, you will never like the Smashing Pumpkins. Obvious but true. Don't try to like them, because it won't work. If Prindle can give Tales from Topographic Oceans 7 and Disintegration 9, then he can surely find a little grudging respect for Adore.

Ava Adore is heavier than a drowning man, but is the only normal Pumpkins song on here: the rest is drum machines, synthesizers, pianos, acoustic guitars and general beautiful melancholy wimpiness, but only someone with his ears full of his own hair could claim this 'sucks,' or words to that effect. There are some stunning tunes, among which Appels + Oranjes and Daphne Descends stand out; but the whole album is commendably consistent. No chainsaw/mosquito effect here.

For the record, Machina / the Machines of God is an absolute sledgehammer of a record, my personal Pumpkin favourite and a heroic farewell from Billy and the Poseurs. It's a shame no one bought it.

Darkangel83us@aol.com
The Smashing Pumpkins had some impressive material. Sure, they may not have been as good as say, Black Sabbath or White Zombie, but at least they actually wrote and sang their own songs instead of following the "Bubble Gum Pop" ways of boy and girl band wanna - be's that try to call themselves artists. The Smashing Pumpkins were a genuine rock band that didn't have to rely on some else's expertise to be seen as a good form of musical talent.

jaimoe0@hotmail.com (James Welton)
Idiot that I am, I read a lot of music press, and I read a lot about this album before I ever heard a note. I was prepared to hate it because it sounded like Baldy's careerist inclinations had gotten the best of him and he'd gone all techno and electronica on us. Now, those genres don't do a lot for me, and I find it contemptible when a band just appropriates a sound that they heretofore had nothing to do with. So, I was ready for venom should I actually get a chance to hear this.

Oops. It's not an album with the kind of memorable, catchy riffage that elevates the best Pumpkins songs, but it sure is effective at creating a mood. Slow and melancholy, and as always, introspective, it just ebbs into your earhole and buzzes around pleasantly in there. I assure you, I'm not super familiar with the album, but only because the times I've listened to it, it kind of settled into my brain as one long mood piece, not because the songs aren't memorable. Plus, I don't own it, but every time I go over to the house of my friend who does own it, I make her play it. It's nice.

And what the fuck happened with the heralded farewell album? Did anyone buy that? I sure as shit know that nobody on the radio played it.

FLAGGIRL96@aol.com
i was checking out this site on smashing pumpkins, let me tell you i think that the smashing pumpkins are one of the greatest bands out. billy corgan is a genious. mellon collie is a great album and comes to show billy can rock and also make some sweet soft tunes. i think most of the reviewers hate the pumpkins due to the fact theyre favorite bands are long gone and forgotten. lets face it, theyre not coming back!! Billy can play!! hes a great guitar player and very creative, and then of course his drummer is something else!! the whole band is great!! his voice is awesome and all his lyrics are great. i fuckin hate it when people say hes overrated and hes only in it for the money, thats stupid, and if he is in it for the money arent all bands? mellon collie is the best album of 90s and of course followed by the box. its awesome too, the mellon collie outtakes and b-sides!! oh and another thing?? have you seen how m